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Permalink Reply by Simon on August 14, 2010 at 1:18pm

I don't wish to cause offense but with your description of forms, kicks and ridge hands are you talking about FMA or Karate?

I am aware many groups use 12 strikes and it is a useful training tool. In my first FMA "style" they used just 5. In my current system the GM just emphasizes "Forehand" and "Backhand". The numbers or order are not stressed. Neither is how to pronounce the word in Tagalog.The application is key.

Kata and forms are merely Mnemonic exercises and if your sparring does not include attributes gained from the "Abacedario" / 12 strike drills for me you are wasting your time. The "Abacedario" is the alphabet in isolation but we need to apply it into sentences and a communicative language i.e the inquiry of combat / sparring.

I am very much a novice instructor and have a lot to learn so I still train the original 12 strikes my instructor was shown as it is easier to teach and build drills from. To develop attributes I do it right handed, left handed, with double stick / blade (which really brings on the role of the "live hand" and makes the movement with single stick / blade easier) 360' clockwise and counterclockwise to name a few. As you say James I also perform the strikes stepping backward, forward and reversing feet as I do so.

I also agree with your main point though. Just because you are working "12 strikes" does not mean you can not gain a whole heap of stuff from the exercise.

I hope more people can talk about and share their solo practice as to me it's so important.

Many thanks.

Simon.

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Permalink Reply by James T Kearney on August 14, 2010 at 6:51pm

My interest in martial arts varies I started off inkarate and it was a case of the blind leading the blind, styles this styles that style, what was lacking was real combat skill. Kata or forms are looked down upon nowadays rightly or wrongly. The point I making is drills are just a tool.We all know what the twelve angles are supposed to do, weapons left or right hand ,empty hand and so on. We must look beyond the sufface levels be it karate, or what ever. In sparring for example how many cuts do we see been used, five maybe, if we're lucky, rarely twelve, so what's your point. We cannot afford to just learn the sequence and take it a face value, can we? Training methods are a tool. In knife sparring, I rarely get a chance to block and disarm, and this is just using a wooden daga. In reversing the twelve angles I was thinking of sparring rather than just a drill, so in application number twelve can be first, number s are a tool really. In empty hand a ridge hand is aridge hand no matter what you cal it a kick is a kick in karate, MMA, FMA, Number twleve can be a hammmer fist or decending elbow or an axe kick, number 10 and 1 can ridge hands or edge hands we still have the number sequence or angles which are concepts really.

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Permalink Reply by Simon on August 14, 2010 at 10:09pm

James - it looks like you've made my points for me:)

Just a tool, applications to sparring, not learnt by rote, different applications / concepts, etc, etc. There's so much there beneath the surface.

I decided to play "Devils advocate" as you posted in the general section and not all FMA groups have 12 strikes or front kicks for example. Some FMA groups do not have set forms or Kata.

For me 5 angles makes more sense then 12 but that's probably influenced by a couple of different GMs who teach that way. Another focus that is important to me is not so much the angle but making the strike part of a linked, continuous attack. Be it armed or unarmed. One should flow into the next whilst having regard for what the opponent is actually doing (i.e assuming he is moving, blocking, etc, etc).

You raise another very interesting point which I wonder if we'll see discussed one day. As there are very few blocks and flowery disarms used in sparring why is so much attention given to them?

Thanks again for your posts.

Simon.

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Permalink Reply by Simon on August 14, 2010 at 10:52pm

To add to my previous post:

"In sparring for example how many cuts do we see been used, five maybe, if we're lucky, rarely twelve, so what's your point"

My point is the 12 strikes / abacedario are "building blocks". Learning the alphabet is a fundamental part of learning English. However, in a conversation we never use all the letters. Does that mean X, Q, Z (for example) are irrelevant and need not be learned?

Once the alphabet is taught and learned there are hundreds of thousands of combinations from just 26 letters. You can write what you want. The same thing applies with the basics of Eskrima.

That's how it was explained to me anyway.

In our system all strikes are "Enganyo" / "bait" to a clockwise strike or anti-clockwise strike anyway. So instead of trying to separate them I am trying to look at the common factors / attributes that link them together.

So that way when I train strike 8, 10, 12 or whatever I am in effect still training the attributes required for 2, 4, 5. Such things like timing, footwork, how to set the strike up, correct body mechanics, etc, etc.

Angles are important for a correct offensive and defensive position but we are taught to hit whatever is closest and available, usually in bunches of 3 or 5. In actuality though I guess it's whatever gets the job done!

Simon.

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Permalink Reply by Simon on August 14, 2010 at 11:55pm

James,

In reading your initial post again I can see an excellent point of yours that I missed!

Yes, if you reverse the motion it is good to see that strikes can be performed on the way back to chambering the weapon, strike or footwork. This way no motion is wasted and the full possibilities of the motion explored - not just half of them.

This leads to my comment that the 12 strikes / angles preclude the clockwise / anti-clockwise strikes in our system. These are the other half of the movement back towards the body.

This "Gap" / half of the motion is often more important that the initial strike for us. An example is strike for the hand and miss but then get that same hand / the other hand even when pulling back the weapon.

Apologies again - I will have to cut down on my Matador consumption and internet surfing ;)

Simon.

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