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This is the link for when the 3 MMA fighters match up against the Marines at Quantico, good stuff.


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Mr. Joven,


This is an interesting response. Does that mean when your group prepares for a tournament they practice breaking all the rules?

I understand a headshot can take someone out quick, but what if you're dealing with a Dog Brother? 

it only takes 1 or 2 shots and doesn't really matter who it is if you get caught coming in.

and no it does not mean u break rules.

unless u are not allowed to hit someone they still have to come within strking distance. we do not have to change the way we fight/train to compete or to defend ourselves unless you have projectiles

So you're still limited by the rules of the tournament. Since certain attacks are banned in a tournament, there is limitation. The two competitors engage and no head shot is scored. However, the one competitor tackles the other, mounts, punches and arm bars or stick chokes. How does your group adapt to that, without training against it? I'm not trying to say this is a street attack because it doesn't consider more than one attacker and other factors.

Projectiles are an example I used earlier. Projectiles are not banned from a street attack.Many years ago, a young student of mine was challenged to a street fight. Foolishly, he accepted, got pepper-sprayed in the face, and beat up.


If is a very big word..

and i did not say we donot train against people trying to shoot, tackle, punch, mount etc. Most of our instructors are also grapplers or cross train in other arts or peace officers.

 What i am saying is we train the same way we fight....and the way that i look at it... they still have to close the distance and its my job to make you pay for it. So we train & train & train

Our instructor used to say you donot have to be highly skilled if you know what your doing.

I'm also not saying that were the best out their...but we would give anyone a  good run for the money.




"What i am saying is we train the same way we fight....and the way that i look at it... they still have to close the distance and its my job to make you pay for it. So we train & train & train."

What do you train, and train, and train for, tournament, self-defense, or both?

Doesn't the mere fact of wearing protective gear change the way your group would fight? 






Not really.

protective gear is so u can go home without your head cracked.

if u are getting hit u need to work at not getting hit or get a new instructor

everyone gets hit.. u keep training so when u don't have protective gear your chances of surviving increase.

anyway last reply Guru Dave

to much explaining makes my head hurt!

thanks for the conversation




Mr. Joven and Mr. Melchor,

Thank you for your insight. I feel both of you have stated your valid points clearly and concisely. I believe it's an open, respectful dialogue between FMA that helps us all grow.

Thank you to all who've replied. It's great to see our love for our art unite us, rather than divide us.

Anyone else, please feel free to reply.


"to much explaining makes my head hurt!" Terry, LOL...I know what you mean.




Burton Richarson made some good points about this

While I don't compete as much as I used to , I think the sport element of martial arts can be a means to a end . Competeing against a stranger who wants to win as much as you ,dealing with butterflies in your stomach and  fighting with the handicap of rules all can help you become a better martial artist .

Learn the game , learn the rules and then learn the fouls isn't a bad way to go


Hi Tom,


Forgive me if I misunderstand, but your response seems to contradict the Burton Richardson article you linked to. Are you trying to use his article as support for your reply?

This may seem a bit off the wall, but I often wonder if there is a risk that tournament or sport combat training gives a false sense of personal security in a street defense situation, and so is actually dangerous to the student. Maybe that's what happened to those UFC fighters.


At the bare minimum I think that any sparring should include the potential for hidden knives - which no sport or tournament training does.

I think your point has merit.

I believe the Dog Brothers have added hidden knives to their fight sessions.

Not off the wall at all.  You are totally correct but the biggest difference is street mindset and sporting mindset are correctly very different. 



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